Adeola Fayehun, a reporter with Sahara Television, had an exclusive interview with Hon. Farouk Adamu Aliyu, former Member, Nigeria House of Representatives.
Sahara Reporters: How do you think that the government is handling the terrorist group so far?
Hon. Aliyu: Very badly because there are two Boko Harams- the visible Boko Haram led by Shekau, and invisible Boko Haram led by President Jonathan Goodluck. Which means the government can never do anything that will contain the Boko Haram absolutely.
Sahara Reporters: Why did you say the government is also Boko Haram?
Hon. Aliyu: You remember very well the President said himself there are Boko Haram members in his cabinet and we are yet to see who they are. He has not handed them over to the police and as I speak to you now, there is not one person that is being prosecuted. Not one high-up level person that is probably in jail for Boko Haram.
Sahara Reporters: I wanted to talk about the missing girls. It’s being like four months now; do you think that they are doing anything at all?
Hon. Aliyu: Well, I think yes they are talking, making noise. But doing things underground? I don’t think so. As I speak to you as well, not one military officer is in Sambisa forest. They have never ever been there. Never! They have never been to the forest where the Boko Haram members are. The government knows. So how do they tackle it?
And you see, the unfortunate part of it is that, the Nigerian military will rather go on the streets and kill you and I. Last week in Zaria, they went and kill El-Zakzaky and his three children; or on the road, on the street or in Lagos bus drivers and so on in other parts of the country. Take money from public, muscling people but to go to Sambisa and fight, they will not because the leader of Boko Haram, the invisible who is Jonathan Goodluck , invisible Boko Haram leader will not give them funds, necessary ammunitions to go and work or to go and fight.
Sahara Reporters: He (President Jonathan) recently asked for another $1 billion to fight Boko Haram. Do you think that he is not using the money for what he claims that he will use the money for? Or do u think that he just did not give them order to go after the girls?
Hon. Aliyu: Well, they have already appropriated more than a trillion naira between 2009 to date to fight Boko Haram. But what are they doing? They are just having parties, coming to Washington with 78 people to come and spend peoples’ money. Or what are they doing again? Maybe the first lady going on jamboree; what are they doing again? Celebration of Nigeria’s 100 years.
What are they doing again? Making sure President acquires another aircraft. What are they doing again? $20 billion that were said to have been missing, instead of the President to ask for where the money is he sacked Sanusi. What he did? Sacked the Managing Director of NNPC; What he did? You know this is the only country that in four years, you had four MD’s of NNPC but the Minister of Petroleum has never been cautioned.
You know this kind of things so this is where the money is going to. Now the President is looking for another one billion to steal the way they have been stealing the country. If the President is serious, he should ask for the whereabouts of the 20 billion and probably take from that 20 billion and use whatever he wants to do for the military but he is not going to do that because he is not serious.
He doesn’t want peace in this country that is why I am in Washington to solicit the assistance and cooperation of President Obama to arrest President Jonathan Goodluck, to ensure he doesn’t go back to Nigeria.
Because if the American government could be after Mugabe, Bashir of Sudan, with even arrest warrants on him, there are no more people killed in Sudan than in Nigeria. So if the United State Government is serious, if the international community is serious, the person to be arrested is here in Washington. They should arrest him; we shall provide evidence against Jonathan Goodluck with blood in his hands.
The country we emulate, United States, you could see how they deploy their resources to bring in two American citizens from Liberia that were affected by Ebola. Two! As I speak to you now, probably 100 Nigerians are killed and nothing is happening. And you mean this man will be walking streets of the greatest democracy in the world? That means American government is not serious if they allow him to go back.
Sahara Reporters: I’m glad you talked about the Washington summit going on. Because I was just to ask you about that. First of all, what do you think about the whole idea of inviting African leaders here? And second of all, do you think anything good can come out of this for regular Nigerians on the street?
Hon. Aliyu: The American government is doing it for its own interest just like the Chinese also did this kind of conference in their own interest. The African leaders and Chinese leaders,- is to foster economic gains of these countries. But whether African leaders you know will also seek for an opportunity to enhance Africans that is another thing.
Some African countries will do but certainly the leadership of Nigeria will not do anything to ensure you and I ordinary Nigerians benefit from this kind of jamboree.
Sahara Reporters: You have been saying that Nigeria has the biggest economy in Africa and it’s been some months now we are not seeing the effect of that yet so I’m just wondering your view about how they’ve been saying Nigeria is the biggest economy now and also the fact that you are saying that coming here doesn’t relay /translate into anything good for common Nigerians.
Hon. Aliyu: You know the economic indices of Nigeria are different from reality. The economic indices, inflation, whatever inflation figure or any economic indices Okonjo Iweala tells you or President Jonathan tells you are total lie because they don’t even know what they are doing.
Economic indices should show the number of jobs created in a month; the number of people that can feed, the numbers of children that can go to school. As I speak to you now, doctors in Nigeria are on strike.
Sahara Reporters: For more than a month?
Hon. Aliyu: For more than a month. Polytechnic lecturers, more than one year they decided on their own to come back to work because nobody cares. So this is a country where nobody cares about anything. How can they come and tell you that we are the biggest economy? I am telling you Niger Republic economy is better than that of Nigeria because at least, average Nigerien people, they can feed, they can send their children to school, and those that can afford can have electricity. But in my country, this is the only country in the whole world that no matter how rich you are, you could be inconvenient.
Because if you have the best car in the country, it could break down and nobody could fix it for you. If you have the best house, you could, absolutely; you know so that is what I am telling you. So where are the economic indices? Who will tell you that we are the biggest economy? No!
If you say we have the greatest looters of the economy that I agree. The president is proud to say that we are the second country with the largest number of private aircraft. That kind of nonsense! I mean if your President will pride himself in saying look, my country has private jets, I mean as if that has got anything to do with the economic indices.
If you have one person of the population of about 200 million stealing, taking the money, bluntly I mean like pucking their fingers into the eyes of the masses, then you can go to hell, do your worse; yes we have stolen, there is nothing you can do and we can bring the military to crush you. Instead of them to send military to Sambisa, they use them against us.
Sahara Reporters: Let’s talk a bit about the upcoming election. You have been saying that the candidate for the President has to be from the north and a lot of people have been wondering why it must be somebody from the north.
Hon. Aliyu: There could be a good Christian leader, and there could be a bad Muslim leader. There could be a good Southern leader or there could be a bad Northern leader. I mean, I am sure we can have somebody better than Jonathan Goodluck from Otuoke, his village. All we are saying is got nothing do with where he comes from, but the way Nigeria is framed. I mean Jonathan Goodluck is from the Southern part of the country, a Christian; Obasanjo, Southern part of the country, a Christian; he has been there for eight years. Jonathan has been there for close to eight years and for semblance of unity.
Sahara Reporters: Cuts in…What about Yar’adua?
Hon. Aliyu: Well, Yar’adua was there for maybe two years. So if you calculate from the time the civilian started in 1999 to date, only Yar’adua who comes from the North, a Muslim. So the people in the North feel like this time is the time of the North.
But if Jonathan Goodluck had led us well, nobody would have even thought of North or any other person. But he is not leading us well. It got nothing to do with where he comes from. I Honourable Farouk Adamu Aliyu went to court to get judgement against my Fulani man, late Yar’adua, for him (President Jonathan) to be acting President of Nigeria. I got judgement in favour of Jonathan Goodluck.
Before then, I have never met him. Up till this time, I met him only once, about a month and half ago at the conference for political parties that he called. I went with General Buhari, that is where I saw him for the first time in my life and I have never seen Jonathan Goodluck in my life so I did it for my country, I didn’t do it for Jonathan.
So it got nothing to do with where he comes from but he is an incompetent leader as a nation. I mean our leader as a Nigerian; incompetent from Otuoke. Otuoke, I’m sure can produce better.
Sahara Reporters: So who do you think could be good candidate in this coming election besides the President because it looks from all indications that Mr. President would probably run; I mean contest. So against him who do you think could be a good candidate?
Hon. Aliyu: Sadly it’s going to be a candidate from All Progressive Congress (APC). And we also have an hand written constitution in APC that this time around, a candidate from the North will fly the flag of APC. So whoever the candidate emerges from, APC would sadly beat Jonathan. Anybody can beat Jonathan because if its performance that would matter for him to tell us what he did, nobody would vote for Jonathan Goodluck because we have no government in Nigeria.
Sahara Reporters: What if the President wins again?
Hon. Aliyu: Well, if Nigerians vote for him, so be it. We are practicing democracy; there is nothing we can do. As at today, I didn’t vote for him but he is my President. There is nothing we can do; he is the President. Yes he is the President but I pray Nigerians don’t make that mistake again.
Sahara Reporters: What are somethings that you feel like they should concentrate on right now in Nigeria? Just some basic things that you think they should just take care of.
Hon. Aliyu: Leadership by example. The President, first of all should declare his asset to lead by example. What I’m saying leading by example, if Nigerians are crying out against the Minister of Petroleum, what is wrong in him investigating her? To prove to the whole world that look, this woman is pretty clean. That is all we are saying.
What is wrong in Mr. President telling us exactly what is in the kitty of government today? And what they are doing with the money. You have to start from that. You have to start from the basic thing; you have to start from as little as number of delegation he is carrying out. When President is moving, the kind of convoys he goes about with.
Sahara Reporters: Cuts in…like here that he came to?
Hon. Aliyu: Exactly! You know you carry 70, 80 people to America? Or when you are moving, even in Nigeria, you carry two hundred cars; the fuelling is done by us. I mean you have to start from basic things that people think it’s nothing.
But you have to start from somewhere because when you see a jeep moving, that is a cottage industry in the village. If they use that money, it can produce water, clean water for my people to drink in Otuoke where he comes from.
Then fight corruption, abide by the oath of office and oath of allegiance without fear or favour. Is he doing that? No! Sanusi asked for $20 billion, what did he get? He was sacked. And up till now, nobody has shown us that look, Sanusi was telling the truth or he was lying. All they did is to make sure he goes and he left and nothing happens.
Committees upon committees and nothing will come out of it. This is the only country also that the solution to a problem is a committee. There is a Chibok girls that are missing; committee to find out how many girls are missing; committee to ascertain the parents, whether the parents are still there. Another committee, also to take care of the parents; another committee to ensure, you know, committees upon committees while you have government agencies dedicated to do all these kind of things. So government has to be, what I’m saying, oath of office, oath of allegiance. If he abides by that, that would be.
Sahara Reporters: So he should declare asset and fight corruption?
Hon. Aliyu: Absolutely! Look, the major problem is corruption. If they fight corruption, everything will fall in place. If Mr. President is accused, I mean like when he came into power, how many houses did he have? How many does he have now? Those kind of things. How can President effectively challenge anybody in government if as I speak to you now, there is not one former governor that is in jail in Nigeria because of corruption because some of them are accused of corruption, they were in government so they had immunity now they are out of government. Only one that was prosecuted in UK. You remember in Nigeria, they said a 160 case he was discharged and acquitted, and in UK, he’s in prison. So I mean, if there are no living examples for fight against corruption, how can any governor or any government official you know see some prestals that look if you do anything wrong, you cannot go scoot free. But in Nigeria, you do things wrong and you go scoot free.
In fact on top of that, you buy an aircraft. That is the social symbol.
Sahara Reporters: Former Governor Alamieyeseigha was released.
Hon. Aliyu: Cuts in…not only released, he was also pardoned, state pardon that he did nothing. He is one of the elite in Nigeria now. This is the president that also we have who does not see himself as President of Nigeria. If I, a Muslim, Fulani man can go to court in his favour for Nigeria, I see no reason why him, last week when El-Zakzaky three children were killed; massacred on the street of Zaria, nothing happened. If children of Edwin Clark, or Ayo Oritsejafor are killed, do you think we would have peace in Nigeria today?
No. but the President is not President of Nigeria, and unfortunately, he is probably President of Ijaw.
Sahara Reporters: A lot of people have been saying oil belongs to the North. First of all, what is your view about this and why?
Hon. Aliyu: No. What I said, the oil in Bayelsa belongs to jigawa. The oil in Delta belongs to Jigawa where I come from. Why? Because we are called Federal Republic of Nigeria, and under the constitution, all resources belong to the government of Nigeria and should be shared accordingly, constitutionally, 13% derivation will go to the oil producing states. So as at today, the oil in Bayelsa belongs to Bornu; the oil in Bayelsa belongs to, of course Jigawa and other states so and till the constitution is changed, it is commonwealth. Simple!
Sahara Reporters: I’m just wondering, you said you have some proof about why they should arrest President Jonathan. Do you mind telling us just few of the reasons why he should be arrested and locked up?
Hon. Aliyu: One, as I said, if President Bashir of Sudan would be sought after for war against humanity, we have evidence of photographs of military personnel slaughtering people alleged to Boko Haram. We have them. I have, I brought them here to US.
Sahara Reporters: So you think the President knows about it?
Hon. Aliyu: Absolutely! He is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of Nigeria. And in all his setting up of committees, we have not heard him setting up committee to investigate those kind of extra judicial killings. Or the killing in Zaria, or the attempted murder of General Buhari, or the attempted murder of late Emir of Kano, or the attempted murder of the Sheu of Bornu, or the mother of Japhat. So many people were killed and nothing happened and we have documented evidence against the armed forces and some security personnel that he is leading. That’s one.
Then two, we also have evidence of Mr. President colluding with alleged Boko Haram sponsors. Anybody who is running from, I mean people that are financing Boko Haram run to him and he works with them. We have this evidence which I hope before he leaves here, Obama will grant my request and order the arrest of Jonathan Goodluck.
Sahara Reporters: Who are some of the people that you think are funding Boko Haram?
Hon. Aliyu: Jonathan Goodluck is number one and his cohorts. The evidence I will show when I’m called open.
Sahara Reporters: But with everything going on in Washington, you are also here but you stand as opposition member though. Who sponsored your trip here?
Hon. Aliyu: I sponsored myself. I own a furniture factory, one of the largest furniture factories in the Northern part of the country. I have had it for last 25 years before I joined politics. I am not a poor man. I can afford to travel first class, stay in five star hotel. I could afford to do this thing for a very long time. I sponsor myself here.
Sahara Reporters: And you came just to make sure they arrest President Jonathan?
Hon. Aliyu: Nods.
Sahara Reporters: Why was he not arrested in Nigeria? Why is it that America has to do it?
Hon. Aliyu: Because he has immunity and American government went to arrest Noruega from Nikaragua so it is for them now, he is here. So let them just arrest him here and you know in Nigeria, you can’t even arrest a governor in Nigeria, they have immunity but in America, they have no immunity. And I hope, I pray they will arrest him.
Sahara Reporters: And you want him jailed here or taken back to Nigeria to be tried?
Hon: Aliyu: Well, I will want him to be jailed anywhere. First of all, I would want him to be tried, and if he is found not guilty, he should be acquitted and discharged. But if he is found guilty, I would want him to spend the prison term in Kirikiri in Nigeria.
Sahara Reporters: And what would be your strategy in dealing with boko haram?
Hon. Aliyu: First of all, insincerity of purpose. The committees upon committees that the government has set up on Boko Haram, what are they doing with the report? If nobody from Bornu State, has been arrested today- nobody like from when the crisis started to date, we have no people that are in prison today.
The strategy is one, to deal decisively with the sponsors. Because the Nigerian security agencies know the sponsors of Boko Haram, they know them. Even we also know them and those
Sahara Reporters: Cuts in. But you are not mentioning…
Hon. Aliyu: Yes I’m not mentioning it now that’s what I’m saying. If they arrest Jonathan Goodluck because he is number one, then other names would follow. When he is arrested then we come up with the names that we know which he knows, they know, the security agencies know but up till now none of them is arrested; nobody is prosecuted for that. Only the foot soldiers, at least foot soldiers. Some are massacred, some are with them, some they would arrange some caricature riot in SSS headquarters and kill them because they don’t want us to know; because, look we as Nigerians need to know.
If they arrest one person, they should tell us what he did, we need to know. But they don’t tell you. Recently they repriarated somebody from Sudan and probably that is the last you will hear of him, I’m telling you. This is Nigeria; that is the last you will hear of him. They would not come and tell us exactly what has happened to him. So that is what we are saying. If Jonathan is brought to trial, we shall bring up all those evidences and probably the SSS, the military intelligence will be made to come and give their evidence.
Sahara Reporters: Are you saying that Jonathan knows the sponsors and he is refusing to prosecute them? What do you think he has to gain from doing that?
Hon. Aliyu: It is very convenient for Jonathan Goodluck for this Boko Haram to continue.
One, it will disenfranchise Northern part of the country where he have the largest number of votes from the country. Is it not, what a coincidence that all these issues are happening in opposition states? Kano was bombed eight times within the last one month. Eight times! So many places were bombed in Kano.
In Yobe, Adamawa and Bornu, of course the headquarters of bombing. So these are the kind of things because with crisis, who will even come to vote? Would you come out to vote and be killed? That’s is why I have honestly sacrifice my life because in Nigeria if you don’t come out to struggle, you will either be killed at the filling station or you will be killed on the road or you will be killed in the motor park or passing the road. So you better come out and speak. You speak out. If they kill you, so be it.
In any case, we are mortals. Somehow, you will die. So if anybody thinks probably by killing me, God bless him. Personally, I’ve sacrificed my life. I am willing to die for my country. If coming out to say the truth will mean me being eliminated, so be it probably those coming behind me will enjoy.
Sahara Reporters: I was going to say that it is not just the opposition state thou because Kaduna was also under attack. Bauchi has been attacked and Gombe.
Hon. Aliyu: Cuts in. That is true but then when you come to the whole picture, all this thing is happening in the Northern part of the country where you have the largest number of votes. So you find out that look, when they tell you, in fact I’m even wondering how we can come out campaigning these days because we will be scared in the Northern part of the country.
Today, my party had large gathering in Osun, Oshogbo, but that kind of gathering cannot happen in Kano or Kaduna because you will be scared. You don’t know what will happen to you. So the government is deliberately instilling fear in the electorates. So it is very convenient for Jonathan not to fight Boko Haram or any terror for that matter in Northern part of the country.
Sahara Reporters: But a lot of Nigerians believe that it is people that don’t like Jonathan that are behind Boko Haram in order to discredit his government. You are saying otherwise.
Hon. Aliyu: You know that is stupid, nonsense. Because how can you arrange for you to kill yourself? How? So if anybody is trying to discredit Jonathan, they should take the fight to Bayelsa where he comes from. No! It’s got nothing to do with him. We don’t hate Jonathan. He is my President today. As at today, he is the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria but I want him arrested so that there will be peace in Nigeria. With him continuing as President of Nigeria, Nigeria will know no peace because he is clueless, he has no idea, I mean it is very convenient, the only idea he has, how do I continue to make sure there is trouble in Northern part of the country.
You see and fortunately for him, he doesn’t know that look, the Boko Haram crisis that started in Bornu, which the government sees it as North East problem started coming to North West, Abuja. If care is not taken, it will go to Bayelsa because this is a national problem; it is not a Northern problem. So the earlier Mr President sees it as our problem, collectively, not because of his election, you know the better.
So if he thinks he disenfranchises the Northerners from voting next year so that he can have the votes from his part of the country, well may God bless him, I hope we will all be alive to see that kind of thing happens.
Sahara Reporters: You are already here. So do you have an appointment to speak with President Obama? Or what is the game plan to get President Jonathan arrested?
Hon. Aliyu: Well, I’m looking for appointment to see him and I hope I would see Obama if by today or tomorrow, at least before Jonathan leaves. If I don’t get to see him, I will drop my letter in the White House so that even if they don’t arrest him now, anytime Jonathan is out of Nigeria, American government probably with the aid of UN arrest him.
Sahara Reporters: Not to undermine what you are trying to do but to be honest, do you think that America really, that they don’t know what is going on in Nigeria? Are you confident that your letter is what they are waiting for or your meeting with Obama is what they are waiting for? Like do you think they don’t know what is going on right now? Or do you think they are knowingly turning blind eye?
Hon. Aliyu: Well, we think they are feeling ignorance, so if they are feeling ignorance, we will remind them. I will tell them that look true true people are dying in Nigeria and we are reminding you that a bomb was planted at UN building in Abuja. We are also reminding you eight bombs were detonated in Kano last week. There was an attempted murder on the life of General Buhari, Dahiru Bauchi, El-Zakzaky 30 supporters and his three children were killed, alleged boko haram members are being slaughtered by the military and so on and so fault.
So many people are kidnapped. The Chibok girls which the American first lady also came out to say bring back our girls, that look its happening and they are doing nothing about it.
Sahara Reporters: But this same America was just in Nigeria to investigate, you know they came out and they said they didn’t find anything.
Hon. Aliyu: Well, you see, what I’m saying it is also very convenient for America to allow him to walk for now. But they will also tell the Americans that if America’s interest is oil in Nigeria and the crisis in the North East can also affect the oil, the production of oil. So I want to remind Americans the earlier they intervene in arresting this man, the better for its America’s interest as well so that there will be peace and tranquillity in Nigeria. So that there will be good governance in Nigeria.
And they (America) prophesise good governance every day; Obama, keep saying America values and so on they don’t agree with torture and so on so the number one torturer of people in Nigeria is in America. Let them arrest him.
Mine is one man riot squad, I know nobody in America, I don’t know anybody to mobilize. But I can bring myself here; I brought myself, I’m an elite where I come from in Nigeria, so I’m here on my own to also have a one man riot squad against President Jonathan Goodluck.
Sahara Reporters: What if America doesn’t show interest in what you stand for?
Hon. Aliyu: Well, that does not mean we shall not keep fighting. We will fight and fight. If Obama does not show interest, one day someday another America President will come, and in the interest of the America people also, you know in the economic interest of the America people, they will rise up against any government of Jonathan leading the most populated African Black Country in the world.
If there is crisis in Nigeria, imagine refugees from the Northern part of the country, flowing into Chad, Cameroons, Niger, there will be no peace in the whole of Western Africa.
[Credit: Sahara Reporters]